Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/18/2004 08:13 AM Senate JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CSHB 252(STA)- OCC LICENSING: TERMS OF BD & CONT. EDUC
The committee took up CSHB 252(STA).
CHAIR SEEKINS announced that the bill sponsor provided the
committee with a draft committee substitute, version Q.
SENATOR THERRIAULT moved to adopt version Q as the working
document before the committee.
CHAIR SEEKINS announced that without objection, the motion
carried.
MR. HEATH HILYARD, staff to Representative Lesil McGuire,
sponsor, informed members that version Q makes one substantial
policy change over the previous version. He noted he would
review the changes in version Q but that Mr. Sam Kito and
various members of the Architects, Engineers and Land Surveyors
(AELS) Board were available to answer specific questions.
MR. HILYARD told members that Representative McGuire sponsored
HB 252 at the request of the AELS board. Version Q does three
things.
First, it modifies existing statutory language with regard to
board members who may serve partial terms. Currently, if a
board member serves any portion of a remaining term, that
service constitutes a full 4-year term. This change will allow a
board member filling a partial term of less than 2 years to also
serve up to two full additional terms or 8 years. The amendment
offered in the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee would clarify
that the change in term limits would only apply to this board.
Second, version Q offers the AELS board statutory authority to
adopt regulations concerning continuing education. A Legislative
Budget and Audit (LBA) Committee audit, conducted in October of
2003, recommended that the AELS board be given this authority to
help implement and maintain high standards. The AELS board will
work closely with all relevant professional societies before
developing any programs.
Third, the AELS board requested that AS 39.25.120(c) be amended
to include the executive secretary of the AELS as the principal
executive officer of the board under partially exempt service.
SENATOR FRENCH asked if the current principal executive officer
of the AELS is now classified as partially exempt.
MR. SAM KITO III, representing the Alaska Professional Design
Council (APDC), explained that currently, the board
administrator is a partially exempt position and, through an
audit last summer, the board learned it did not have the
statutory authority to maintain partially exempt status so the
Division of Personnel is proposing to convert that position to a
classified one. This effort is to maintain the partially exempt
status.
SENATOR FRENCH surmised that this would give the APDC the
statutory authority to retain the partially exempt
classification for that position; otherwise, there has been a
push to change the classification to classified.
MR. KITO said that is correct. He then informed members that the
APDC supports version Q.
MR. PAUL WHIPPLE, representing the Alaska Professional Design
Council and the Alaska Professional Land Surveyors, stated
support for version Q.
SENATOR THERRIAULT commented that having the power to adopt
continuing education standards is often quite contentious. He
asked Mr. Whipple to review that issue.
MR. WHIPPLE said the APLS has fought since the mid 1980s to
require continuing education to maintain licensure, however some
of the associated professions have been reticent to make that a
requirement. He said his understanding is that the board of one
of the associated memberships adopted a resolution to require
continuing education. The American Institute of Architects
already have a mandatory continuing education for maintaining
membership so the topic is not as contentious as it used to be.
CHAIR SEEKINS asked, "When you talk about the board may adopt
regulations to carry out the purpose of the chapter, including
regulations establishing continuing education requirements for
the persons regulated, how do you come up with a consensus as to
just what those continuing education requirements should be?"
MR. WHIPPLE said the national organizations have been working on
continuing education programs. Currently, 26 states require
continuing education to maintain licensure. The process for
adopting continuing education regulations is a joint effort
between the AELS board and the representative societies.
CHAIR SEEKINS responded that gives total power to that board. He
asked if the legislation contains a cross reference to national
standards or building a consensus among the different members.
MR. WHIPPLE was unable to answer that question.
CHAIR SEEKINS said he has no problem with requiring continuing
education, but if he was a land surveyor, he would want to know
what they were. He questioned whether they could be used as a
tool to limit competition.
MR. WHIPPLE said a national standard for the National Society of
Professional Surveyors in association with the American Congress
of Surveyors and Mapping developed continuing education. That
national organization represents well over 20,000 licensed
practitioners and worked with individual states to develop
standards. The Alaska ASPLS did develop some draft continuing
education requirements for surveyors that are not on record yet.
It also worked with AELS and the Alaska section of ACSM to
develop those standards.
CHAIR SEEKINS said his only concern is how high the standard can
be for the regulations this board can adopt and whether the
intent is to establish professionalism or could they be used to
limit competition.
MR. WHIPPLE said that has been a concern of every state. He
added:
It's the old guild method where they're eliminating
any kind of competition. Unless you're a member of the
guild, you can't practice and you write up the
standards so that nobody else can practice but that's
just not the case. There is a real need to protect the
public by ensuring that the practitioners are current
in regulation and are current in modern technologies
that have been developed.
CHAIR SEEKINS said he was just wondering if there was an upper
limit on what the board could do in terms of being able to
exceed the national standard. He said he did not see the need to
hold the bill in committee if the intent of the measure is
basically housekeeping.
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked for a chance to review the discussion
in the audit before the bill leaves the committee.
CHAIR SEEKINS agreed to hold the bill in committee and took more
public testimony.
DR. ROBERT MILLER, Chair of the AELS board, said he appreciates
Chair Seekins' concern about the regulations for continuing
education being an obstacle to the practice of any profession.
He offered that the board, over the last 5 or 6 years, has
increased other education standards in terms of professional
degrees for both engineers and land surveyors. The new standards
are much more burdensome than the continuing education
requirements. When the board decided to pursue the matter, it
was at the instigation of the two land surveying members of the
board. That effort was reinforced by a legislative audit that
recommended the board consider mandatory continuing education.
He believes all of the conscientious practitioners support the
idea; however, some would agree it should not be burdensome. The
board drafted regulations and submitted them to the Attorney
General's Office, but learned it did not have the statutory
authority to write such regulations. The board would like to
implement that authority over a long period of time. It could do
so initially just for the land surveyors and, although that
might sound discriminatory, the other professions regulated by
the board require degrees. Many land surveyors are self-taught
or learn on the job.
CHAIR SEEKINS said he was not worried about the requirements
being burdensome but unnecessarily burdensome. He questions
where that level is in terms of a quantitative analysis.
DR. MILLER then asked to speak to the issue of classification of
the administrative position and said the board very much feels
it is important that the executive administrator position be
partially exempt. That position is not only a civil servant but
also a servant to the profession and the public. A partially
exempt classification would allow the board a certain amount of
discretion that would be beneficial. The executive administrator
is the presence of the board because no board member is on
constant call. The board believes it is well served by the
executive administrator. He pointed out the title is also
referred to as an executive secretary and executive officer,
although the board refers to the position as an executive
administrator. He asked that the title be made consistent in the
legislation and changed to "executive administrator."
MR. HILYARD commented that the sponsor has no opinion on the
title of the position.
MR. KITO stated support for Dr. Miller's comments.
SENATOR OGAN questioned why the board term will be changed for
this board and no other.
MR. HILYARD explained that his understanding is that in the
past, the AELS board in particular has had difficulty filling
those positions.
DR. MILLER added that the purpose for the requested change is
that the AELS regulates four different professions. The learning
curve for board members is sharper than for some of the other
boards. Some board members have felt inadequately prepared to
deal with the issues after one or two years. Extending the term
a person can serve will help the board capture more expertise.
He noted that some states have no term limits at all, which he
was not suggesting, but said that the AELS has had board
vacancies for considerable periods of time. Therefore, being
able to keep members for two full terms would be helpful.
SENATOR OGAN asked if any board member would be directly
affected by this change.
DR. MILLER said perhaps, but the person would have to be
reappointed by the Governor and approved by the Legislature.
CHAIR SEEKINS asked that the sponsor or her representative
prepare an amendment to address the executive administrator
position for the committee at the next hearing.
MR. HILYARD agreed to do so.
CHAIR SEEKINS announced that he would hold the bill in committee
and adjourned the meeting at 8:56 a.m.
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